Thursday, July 19, 2007

Point, Counterpoint

Nice to see the Dodgers take 2 of 3 from the Phillies, who can mash.

Juan got to keep his hit streak going, but not a great day for the center fielder.

1. Singled to center. Erased on Gonzalez's double play.
2. Popped to third. #312.
3. Grounded to short. #313.
4. Grounded to third. #314.

Pace: 535 outs.

Pierre is still tops in the majors in outs made -- three ahead of Rollins.

To address loyal OutWatcher 71and91's point from yesterday, a point of information: here are the top players in MLB in plate appearances, followed by their On Base Percentages and Slugging Percentages.

Rollins 334 / 523
Sizemore 389 / 462
Reyes 382 / 443
Uggla 320 / 476
DeJesus 353 / 396
Pierre 316 / 339
Jeter 401 / 470
Utley 404 / 583
Roberts 404 / 447
Rios 359 / 541

To me, that looks like a bunch of all-stars with three exceptions. By and large, players who are getting as many opportunities as Pierre is getting are either getting on base a lot, hitting for power, or both. There are three exceptions.

Dan Uggla's 320/476 isn't terribly impressive, but he does play second base, the third-most difficult position on the diamond after catcher and shortstop. I haven't looked it up; it's quite possible that a slugging percentage of 476 is good for a second baseman and that Uggla should be grouped with the rest of the guys. Don't know off the top of my head, but it deserved to be noted. I'll point out that he plays for Florida, which is kind of lost as a franchise at the moment.

David DeJesus's slugging percentage, 396, is low enough that I'd like to see a higher OBP, but on the other hand, an OBP of 350 isn't bad by any means. Plus, he plays center field (like Pierre), the fourth-most difficult position on the diamond. And he plays for Kansas City, which has been lost for a franchise for a long time.

I'll point out that Juan Pierre's production, 316/339, is far, far below these two guys. And he plays for the Dodgers, who are in a large market, hanging onto first place, and should know better.

So the excuse that "Juan makes a lot of outs because he gets a lot of plate appearances" doesn't hold water. Everybody else who gets a lot of plate appearances is better than he is, and usually, better by quite a bit.

We don't judge Pierre on the basis of his total outs made; we judge him based on his production, which affects his total outs made. Still, we will continue to count his outs because it's a shorthand, a focus point, something to do every day, an ever-larger number that reminds the Dodger management of his mediocrity and that the team could be better just by sitting Pierre and playing Kemp and Ethier and Gonzalez every day.


Brock said...

I'm just here for the cockfest.

Humma Kavula said...

As are we all.

The Juan Pierre Outwatch: you'll come for the nearly nonsensical tracking of each and every out that Juan Pierre makes...

...but you'll stay for the feigned homoeroticism.

71and 91 said...


71and 91 said...

I just got off the phone with Luis Gonzalez (that's LuGo to Weisman's Dodger hating cocksuckers.)

He wanted me to relay this message to you assfarts....


71and 91 said...

I haven't talked to Juan Pierre, but rumor has it that his WS ring says you can kiss its ass too.

Stupid fucks. Why dont you haters take every player who qualifies for the batting title.....take their outs divided by PA's and then see where Pierre stands.


What happended to joeyp. Oh...thats right. The Dodgers are winning. That motherfucker aint so happy and jubilant to post at Weisman cockfest for now.

At least there's always d4p.

And whatever happened to Steve. That's right..... I ran that timid motherfucker off. Scared bitch.

Humma Kavula said...

Wow. Next time you talk to Luis Gonzalez, ask him if he kisses his triplets with that mouth.

On another note, I notice that you keep registering different usernames. You were once "71n91." Then you became "71and91," and now, you are the subtly different "71and 91." A man has a right to call himself anything he likes, so I don't want to make a big deal about this, but I am curious: why the constant change?

71and91 said...

Yes he does and so do I.

Including Pierre's numerous sacrifices in outs is a bunch of bullshit too.

That suicide squeeze in SF in a close game counts as an out? WELL KISS MY ASS!!!

Your blogs a crock of shit and so are you. Maybe you realize this and you just hate short fast black people.

And this fucking thing wont take my name and password. So fuck it. I'll create a new motherfuckin one every fucking time I post.

Tell d4p he's a stupid cuntbitch for me. Tell DePo's gone and to move on with his life.

Brock said...

Biggest. Internet. Tough Guy. Ever.

71and91 said...

d4p's throwing a hissy fit at the cockfest. Funny shit.

When are going to ask that whiny bitch if he's going to be in Cincinnati or St. Louis. I'd like to smack the pompous fucker around a little bit.

71and91 said...

Hey Brock you numbfuck. This aint the cockfest. Weisman hosts that shit you idiot.

jimbilly4 said...

As per request:

Outs/PA in order (top ten)

0.741 Felipe Lopez
0.734 Ryan Zimmerman
0.730 Juan Pierre
0.725 Brandon Philips
0.718 Marcus Giles
0.707 Garrett Atkins
0.705 Andruw Jones
0.703 Dan Uggla
0.702 Carlos Delgado
0.698 Carlos Lee

Only people who make more outs per PA are Felipe Lopez (238/292/337) and Ryan Zimmerman (257/309/435). Felipe plays SS and Ryan has a little pop, but both are bad players deserving of replacement.

On this list there are two slugging second baseman, Philips and Uggla, with miserable OBP. However, in answer to Humma's earlier question, .476 (Uggla's SLG) is damn good for 2B. It is the 4th highest slugging for a 2B in all of baseball. Brandon is slugging .490. Only Utley is higher (and by a lot).

Although bottom of the list, finding Carlos Lee here is slightly surprising as he is having a damn fine season (297/355/518). I think it can be attributed to his 17 GDPs and 5 CS (out of 11 attempts). A strange combination...

Lee aside, of the top 9 in Outs/PA, I would describe them all as either low OBP sluggers, guys having terrible years, or combinations of both.

jimbilly4 said...

The previous list was a minimum of 375 PAs, roughly 4 per game, not the 3.1 required to qualify. I was being lazy.

New Bottom 10 list:

0.778 Miguel Olivo
0.748 Omar Vizquel
0.743 Khalil Greene
0.741 Bengie Molina
0.743 Pedro Feliz
0.741 Felipe Lopez
0.735 Chris Young
0.735 Alex Gonzalez
0.734 Ryan Zimmerman
0.730 Juan Pierre

So Juan just barely makes the best of the worst. Of course for 7 of those 10 their manager had the sense not to start them every day.

6 of them are C or SS, tough to replace no matter how bad they play. Two are 3B and two are CF.

So you are in fact correct, Juan is not the #1 outmaker, rate-wise. He is the 10th. He is the 4th best outmaker for a non-SS or C. He is the 2nd best outmaker for a CF, narrowly losing out to Chris Young by 0.005 points.

Holy crap, Chris Young is terrible, he is batting .232, OBP is .275... but he still out OPS's Juan. (14 HRs will do that).